Chris Norton: 0:09

Welcome to Embracing Marketing Mistakes, the podcast that aims to help you hit record revenue and double your ROI, all by learning from the glorious mistakes of the world's top marketers. I'm Chris Norton and alongside my co-host, will Ockenden, we're here to help you, the senior marketer, uncover insights, innovations and lessons from some of the boldest campaigns in the industry. Today, we're thrilled to be joined by Sinead Morrissey, a senior account manager here at Prohibition PR HQ. To audiences. Gap has teamed up with TikTok creator and artist, julia Hung, to design a unique hoodie that redefines the brand's connection to modern culture. In this episode, sinead will share the story behind this campaign and why Gap chose Julia. What this collaboration signals about the future of influencer marketing for legacy brands. How the campaign leverages the creator economy to build authenticity and reliability. The challenges Gap faced in making the shift. And the lessons learned along the way, because that's what we all want to hear. This collaboration blends creativity, authenticity and bold innovation, and Sinead is here to give us an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at what it took to bring it to life. So, as always, sit back, relax and let's hear how Gap is rewriting the playbook on brand partnerships with creators and what this means for the future of marketing in 2025. Enjoy, sinead Morrissey.

Chris Norton: 1:37

Welcome back to the show. Hello, you're welcoming me. Yeah, no, you're welcome. Last time was great. What did you cover last time? What did we talk about last time?

Sinead Morrissey : 1:46

The Olaplex Ola Dupe campaign. Oh yeah, that's right. I was a guest with you once as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's an honour to be invited back it is Well.

Chris Norton: 1:55

you're better than my normal co-host who unfortunately is with us as well.

Sinead Morrissey : 2:06

Hello, right, so today, what have you got for us today, sinead, let's what have you got. I've got a really some might say annoying campaign.

Sinead Morrissey : 2:09

So the campaign was that a tiktoker called Julia Hewan um basically went on a quest to find a hoodie that hoodies. Explanation of a hoodie that hoodies is basically a hoodie that's for when you want to be comfortable yet stylish at the same time. It's the hoodie that you take to the airport, to the grocery store or on a late night ice cream run. It's your staple go-to hoodie. So I've definitely got one of these hoodies.

Chris Norton: 2:31

Can I just point out at this point all I'm thinking is that every hoodie that you wear does all those things.

Sinead Morrissey : 2:37

No, it doesn't.

Chris Norton: 2:37

Is this like a jacket that jackets?

Sinead Morrissey : 2:39

Yeah, it's all about the fit.

Chris Norton: 2:41

Right, okay, and is this?

Will Ockenden: 2:42

based on some kind of insight that there's an awful lot of shit-fitting hoodies out there.

Sinead Morrissey : 2:47

Yeah, so basically as part of her quest, she tried like hundreds and hundreds of hoodies on and started like rating them on her TikTok.

Chris Norton: 2:56

Is that what her TikTok is? It's just her rating different hoodies. Has it always been that way?

Sinead Morrissey : 3:06

No, this was just a series that she started last year in october. Okay, so the first video that she put out had over two million likes, 10 over 10 000 comments and 70 000 shares, so obviously it resonated with quite a lot of people. That, aren't you two?

Will Ockenden: 3:17

um, was she an established influencer before she started talking about hoodies?

Sinead Morrissey : 3:20

yeah, I think she has like a million followers okay on tiktok and then quite a lot on instagram as well. Um, but basically she started this quest and she started getting loads of hoodies sent to her by brands um to review as part of the series um and it's just a quest for her.

Chris Norton: 3:38

It was originally. We're thinking it was just a quest as a she loves hoodies, so she thought, right on my tiktok, I'm going to start talking about hoodies, that hoodie yeah, I think hoodies are quite a staple gen z part of their wardrobe excuse me. The gen x in me says that I did buy the first range of prohibition pr hoodies yeah, do they hoodie?

Sinead Morrissey : 3:58

no, they definitely don't. Oh for god's sake.

Will Ockenden: 4:00

What's wrong with them?

Sinead Morrissey : 4:01

so will's taking personal offense.

Will Ockenden: 4:03

But the first the first lot had silver writing on it. Yeah, we looked like a dance group.

Chris Norton: 4:08

Yeah, we looked like some sort of dance group.

Sinead Morrissey : 4:11

It's the fit. The fit is all wrong. So for Julia, the fit is that you want a wide, boxy fit paired with a nice drop shoulder and wide sleeves. The sleeves are very important. The hood needs to be big enough to fit your head in without having to squeeze, and the feel needs to be soft and have a really nice heavy weight to it. None of those things which our Prohibition hoodies have.

Chris Norton: 4:36

Prohibition hoodies are available. No, they're not, because we don't sell them.

Sinead Morrissey : 4:39

The arms are too tight. The waistband is too tight. And the colour is all wrong right, excellent.

Chris Norton: 4:46

I'm glad that me and will did a good job on that though, yeah, so you probably should, maybe we should do some embracing marketing mistakes. Hoodies, that hoodie yeah, okay, all right we'll do one and see if we can sell it um.

Sinead Morrissey : 4:59

So basically what? How gap became involved is that, rather than sending her a hoodie like everyone else, they came up with the idea to get her to create one for their first ever creator collab. So they've done loads of collabs this year, but no one's actually created a product for them, and this is the first time they've ever done it. So they flew her to their design offices in New York and she worked with the team on everything from the weight, the fit, the construction, the fabric, the colours, and the result was not only a hoodie that hoodies, but the hoodiest hoodie.

Chris Norton: 5:32

Julia approved so from there To warn everybody before we get into this video. The word hoodie becomes mildly irritating, doesn't it?

Sinead Morrissey : 5:47

the word hoodie becomes mildly annoying. Irritating, doesn't it? Yeah, so if we watch her original original video.

: 5:53

First. If you ever wondered why some people's hoodies, they're just hoodie-ing. Let me let you in on the hoodie secret. Okay, I feel like there's a hoodie community that knows the secret and no one is telling y'all. Okay, okay, so this is my hoodie. She's hoody-ing-ing, right, this hoodie hoodies. This is also a hoodie that hoodies and this is a hoodie that does not hoodie. Let me show you. Okay, she's on Like it's not hoody-ing. Do you know what I mean? I'm gonna tell you everything wrong with this hoodie. No shade to UCLA, but this hoodie is trash. The width of the sleeve needs to be wide.

Sinead Morrissey : 6:28

Like, if you compare it to my other hoodie, that hoodies.

: 6:31

Look at that. Look at the difference. Also, the fit. It's just really tight in here. You want this to be boxy, so it needs to be wide. Now let me show you everything right about this hoodie. This hoodie hoodies it, hoodies so hard. It's the hoodies of hoodies. Look at the sleeves. You see the dramatic difference between the other hoodie and this hoodie. Look at that. This is so wide. Look at the sleeves. You see the dramatic difference between the other hoodie and this hoodie. Look at that. This is so wide. Look at this, it's so wide. It looks so much better because the sleeve is coming in here and not up here. And do you see how wide this is? Look at that. This same rule applies to crewnecks as well. Look at the sleeves. They're wide. Basically, the sleeves need to be wide and this part needs to be wide too. It doesn't matter how big or small the hoodie is. The ratio just needs to be right. Good luck hoodie hunting. Also, please recommend any more hoodies for me. Thanks.

Chris Norton: 7:21

Okay, can I so my first take on that we've just watched, watching that first video is and I'm aware we've got someone Gen Z in the room as well as a millennial. I'm on the c, got someone Gen Z in the room as well as a millennial. I'm on cusp. Actually, you're on the cusp of both. Stop clinging on with dear life You're a millennial.

Chris Norton: 7:39

So she demonstrated there. Quite well, I sort of get it. But the arms thing that you were talking about, so the prohibition hoodie that you were talking about, I think the ones that are tighter look better, because for those of you that are listening by audio, I felt you might as well, instead of calling them sleeves, call them wings. The hoodie that hoodies looks a bit more like you've got bloody Batman's wings on. You know what I mean.

Will Ockenden: 8:06

I mean, that's a separate debate, yeah.

Sinead Morrissey : 8:08

I think it's part of the debate, doesn't it? It's a separate debate. Yeah, no, I think it's part of the debate.

Will Ockenden: 8:11

It's a separate debate, do you think Gap implemented some kind of social listening to identify that this was a kind of a trending topic?

Sinead Morrissey : 8:19

Well, yeah, so I think basically the head of marketing said that someone from the women's merchandising team brought it to her because obviously they noticed it just as a trending piece of content. But I think obviously a lot of the time when we work with clients, they'll come to us and they'll say we want to do a creator collab and we kind of work backwards and have to try and find someone that's a good fit and it's all a little bit forced, which is probably the scenario that most brands will be in. But this just sort of fell at their feet because obviously it's they.

Sinead Morrissey : 8:54

I guess they could have just sent a hoodie like every other brand did um, but they kind of took it one step further and I think it's organic though, isn't it? Yeah, so that's kind of what worked she paid for this.

Chris Norton: 9:05

She must have been.

Sinead Morrissey : 9:06

She's flown to new york, and that's some serious investment in time, even if she's there three days or whatever yeah, and obviously I'm guessing she'll make some money off the back of the hoodie yeah yeah, but I think gap have basically said that a big part of their marketing strategy is shifting to more of a social first place, so they want to be socially led with everything that they do. So I think that that's sort of why they went into this feet first and did did something a bit different but that makes total sense with Gap's audience, doesn't it?

Chris Norton: 9:38

yeah, they always done the youth gen z.

Sinead Morrissey : 9:40

That not gen z, but even before that it was always about young, dynamic individuals and they said that they knew that their hoodie is obviously a staple item for them, but that it might not necessarily hoodie in Julia's eyes. So, knowing that she has that sort of specific take on it, they thought that it made more sense to invite her in and get her to create her own. And they also said that they know that a single piece partnership like this won't likely prove a big sales driver. But that's not the goal, and they're looking to drive credibility and relevance, successful based on engagement and reach, views, shares, likes, the content that's happening within the comments and what the community is saying, which is quite a refreshing take from our perspective.

Will Ockenden: 10:25

Do you think this also generated traditional media coverage, maybe in the kind of I could imagine, the kind of the hipster media, for example, picking up on it, you know, like Heist and Nobiety and stuff like that?

Sinead Morrissey : 10:39

Yeah, I haven't seen loads. Most of the coverage I've seen I think it was in kind of marketing media and there was like, I think, is it Gl, is it glossy, which is a fashion title but it's a social first execution community yeah execution, really isn't it yeah, and I think gap have quite a good understanding that that was the case, whereas yeah, so it was in glossy, which is like a fashion um title yeah they kind of interviewed julia um and the head of marketing at Gap.

Sinead Morrissey : 11:11

But I think that's not why they did it. They just wanted to make their mark on something from a social perspective and they realized that it I guess a slightly more organic campaign obviously. Kind of once, they obviously got her involved in creating the product it's not necessarily, but in it, sort of how it started, was more of an organic nature for the collaboration, which isn't often the case these days.

Chris Norton: 11:36

We get to see the next video. She shows the product right that they developed.

Will Ockenden: 11:40

Yes, I was going to say the Penella Vodka. Heinz Absolute Collab is the only other example I can think of. You know, with Bella hadid talking about pen a la vodka. Then they created the limited edition yeah, but that that was.

Chris Norton: 11:55

They created it after somebody identified it was clever because they did that. This feels like they've gone authentic. They've seen somebody is on a mission to create. So it feels like gap. We're doing social listening and looking, trying to plug into the tiktok sort of what trends are out there in fashion. Oh, this person's looking like there might be someone out there that's saying here's my shorts, that shorty, for instance, that was awful. Nobody's gonna ever say that, but you know what I mean. They were looking at finding the perfect denim shorts, I don't know, and maybe then gapper didn't engage with them. Maybe that is it to develop. I can see it feels authentic and it feels like they've listened I'm surprised no other brand thought to do this I know in retrospect, it seems so obvious yeah, that's the thing.

Sinead Morrissey : 12:37

It does seem so obvious and it isn't overly like clever yeah, it's quite simple.

Chris Norton: 12:42

The execution's great and how much did it cost though?

Will Ockenden: 12:44

well, yeah that's because she's quite a big influencer, I mean it's probably the million dollars they had to spend on on the campaign.

Sinead Morrissey : 12:50

That's um stopped anyone else doing it yeah, um, so this is one of the videos she posted a lot of hoodies like a lot and we've been looking for the hoodies hoodie for over a year now.

: 13:02

I've been hiding a little secret from you guys after trying many, many, many hoodies I finally designed a hoodie that hoodies with Gap so exciting, I know. A few months ago I flew across the country to New York City on a freaking mission to the Gap design offices and we made sure that this hoodie was exactly to my liking. We measured out the hood, the cuffs, the waistband, the sleeves, the boxiness, literally everything that makes a hoodie hoodie.

: 13:30

And the hoodie just arrived in the mail and I'm so excited to see it for the first time ever so I mean quite clever that they send her.

Chris Norton: 13:37

It's in the box, it's all done. Nice bespoke hoodie, that hoodies I'd be interested to know if anyone bloody buys it well, I think she she gifted.

Sinead Morrissey : 13:47

She had like 50 to gift to other influencers wow, and then it was going into 20 stores and being sold online, but I don't. Obviously we don't have any insight on on the stores sales yet yeah and at the moment, like obviously the first video had over two million views, these, these videos haven't had. They've had like over a hundred thousand I think, but not as many I finally designed a hoodie that hoodies with Gap Like.

: 14:13

I literally flew across the country to create this. So this hoodie, better hoodie, and this is the first time I'm seeing her, so let's check her out. Oh my God, I don't even want to open it, like I'm just so nervous. Oh, this feels luxurious. This is so heavy. Oh my goodness, stop. Oh my god, I'm gonna cry. No-transcript, stop Off the bat. The material is amazing. It's like not too fleecy, if you know what I mean. It feels so good. It's 650 GSM. That's insane.

: 14:49

This is what the front looks like. This is what the back looks like. Okay, moment of truth. Literally literally. Yes, I don't think I've ever been so happy in my life. This hood is so big. Even with my hair down it's not touching my face. The cuffs have the perfect amount of stretch Girl, boxy but not too boxy. Also, the waistband is so amazing. It's not too tight. You can also pull her up and get this nice little slouchy effect. We love her.

: 15:17

Dare I say I'm obsessed Final verdict does this hoodie hoodie? Oh yeah, this hoodie hoodies Also. Guess what? She has a front pocket. Yeah, this is a luxury nowadays.

Chris Norton: 15:28

What do you think?

Will Ockenden: 15:29

Well, will you be buying a hoodie that hoodies? I'm still not entirely clear on what hoodying means, but I mean it's. It's for me, it's an interesting exercise in community, community led social is social done the right way? Isn't it where they're genuinely listening to their community? Yeah, and the execution's great as well.

Chris Norton: 15:50

It's it's mental. I work but this is not nothing new like I worked with before, I think the first year that I had prohibition, I worked with a brand that does waterproof boots right, bear with me. So this was when bloggers were before influence. There was no influencers. There was influential bloggers, but you couldn't. You couldn't find them online. You had to, like, do your own research. You could find them online, but there wasn't like lists and stuff.

Chris Norton: 16:13

And um, I got hired by a company to do outreach for professional workman boots and they were waterproof and they could repel anything from water, blood. So so they were great for the NHS. So imagine you're a paramedic, you get blood on you. Bear with me, bear with me, anyway. So the client hired, I worked with this agency and I was hired to outreach it all and to get all the social engagement. So I outreached it. This was a global thing. I did it on my own, outreached around the world, and I think I sent out 25 to 50 pairs, something like that took. It took quite a bit of time, but and the people got them and then they wrote about, they did do a review on their blog and talk about them. Anyway, about 10 of them reviewed them and came back to me and said, yeah, they're great, great boots because they have this, this technology, on.

Chris Norton: 17:00

I think the brand was high tech. Actually they the really great. The only problem is can't wear these in the nhs because they don't have steel toe caps, and so I fed that back to the creators of the brand and the brand then changed the product and then and it became a thing with steel tech. That is 14 years ago. So it's not do you see my point? But? But the the point is, if you do a campaign with an influencer which is what you would be doing here we're talking about somebody that's actually interested in the area and you take on board their feedback you're going to create a more authentic product. But the proof of the pudding here will be whether people buy this hoodie that hoodies. Has it got a name or is it just called the hoodie that hoodies?

Will Ockenden: 17:40

I don't know. I suppose it depends if it's a pure brand awareness engagement, which is what they've said I think, yeah, it's awareness, yeah, I suppose it's attention, isn't it so? What are your kind of learnings for other brands?

Sinead Morrissey : 17:54

and shanae went with an execution like this I think a lot of brands obviously do social listening for the sake of social listening, but only really look at how their brand's being talked about and ignore how the product something like a hoodie is being spoke about online.

Sinead Morrissey : 18:12

Or the category as a whole yeah, and I think that is a big mistake because you are then missing out on sort of authentic conversation around products that you're then going to sell, but you're not actually clocking the conversations that happen happening like trends or other sort of topics that can lead into campaigns that you could run, um, and it's kind of I know it's it's not reinventing the wheel, but it is sort of thinking outside of the box and not just gifting someone something, um, but it's then still not that overly complicated.

Chris Norton: 18:45

So if you're a marketer, you could have somebody in your marketing team. You could say go off research the category, because obviously TikTok's a search engine. What are people searching for or talking about in our category? How are they referencing it? Is there anything that we can tap into? That's not just us sending out widgets to review a widget.

Will Ockenden: 19:05

Yeah, I mean isiktok, to understand brand and use and category conversations is is so powerful, isn't it now? I mean there's you know, whatever category you're in, whatever your brand is, chances are it is being actively discussed. As chris said, there's going to be um insightful feedback on your product for better or for worse, isn't there which?

Sinead Morrissey : 19:23

you possibly could take on board yeah, but I would buy the hoodie. I think it's the okay, so shanae would buy the hoodie would.

Chris Norton: 19:31

Would would our listeners buy the hoodie? Let us know in the comments. Would you buy the hoodie?

Sinead Morrissey : 19:35

although actually I think it's quite expensive, it'll probably only be available on ebay for about 500 quid now. I think it's like a100.

Chris Norton: 19:42

Is this available along with the Saka sauce? I?

Sinead Morrissey : 19:44

don't know how much that is. Do you remember the Saka sauce was?

Chris Norton: 19:48

like 250 quid a bottle.

Will Ockenden: 19:49

Didn't they then give it all away for free for like one weekend or something?

Chris Norton: 19:54

But then people stuck their bottles on eBay and we were looking when I was with Caitlin and it was like 250 quid for a bottle of Saka sauce.

Sinead Morrissey : 19:59

That was £5 originally. I don't think this is going to have the same effect, to be honest.

Chris Norton: 20:04

Okay, well, thanks for coming on the show Sinead again.

Will Ockenden: 20:07

You've made us feel really old with that example, but I'm sure there's lots of listeners that love that.

Chris Norton: 20:11

Yeah, thanks for listening. Everybody, Make sure you go out and buy the hoodie. No, we're not involved in the hoodie or selling of the hoodie.

Will Ockenden: 20:24

So if you can tell us how many times we've actually said hoodie during this podcast, you can win a prohibition hoodie, which the value of which has now gone down significantly after Sinead said they don't hoodie which is like, which is loved by gen z and older millennials we've discovered.

Chris Norton: 20:34

Um yeah, see you again next week. Everybody thanks for listening.