SPEAKER_02 0:00

So you you talked about failure then. So come on then. You're on you're on a podcast about mistakes. What what what failure have you made in your career that you have learned from that you think that our listeners could use? Because they've they've made loads. I want them to all send them in to us. I'd be interested to hear what what you've had what you've had to go through. Because you've worked in sales as well, so you'll have had some interesting picture scenarios and all sorts of Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Uh I yeah, I could probably uh I could probably give you you you two there. I mean, I think the biggest one for me, my mistake was when I was a bit younger, was just kind of thinking that I knew everything coming into this sort of stuff, just always being like, No, I I know this, I know what I'm doing, I don't need that help. And if someone ever asked, like, oh, can I help you on this? I almost viewed that as a sign of weakness. That it was sort of, oh, if you're asking me if I need help on that, then I'm clearly struggling and not doing the right thing. I think then as I you sort of my career moved on a little bit, and obviously then I started working with Rory as well. You

Owning Early-Career Arrogance

SPEAKER_00 0:57

realize that even someone like Rory Sutherland, who's an absolute genius, never claims to know everything. The amount of books he still reads, and the amount of people that he asks for help and uh and advice on everything. Someone that's mega famous that's done this for 35 years will never admit to knowing everything. So I think that was a big thing for me, looking back and just being able to say, cool, asking for help or asking for advice in a company and from friends, from colleagues, from uh your uh people underneath you, even people in your team, really, like sort of people that report into you, going to them and asking for help. I think that is a bit a big thing, and owning that you're will you will be forever learning through your career. And if you're not forever learning, then you're probably not gonna go very far. Uh, so that's probably my overall one. Um, what would be the worst sales

Learning From Mentors And Asking Help

SPEAKER_00 1:45

mistake I think I ever made?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

This is all scenario. We've had all sorts. We've had we've had people turn up to the wrong offices, we've had um people go on the wrong date, we've had people hung over in the pitch scenarios, we've had people with decks with the wrong work with the wrong client name in the deck, in the middle of the deck while they're doing the pitch.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Oh, that's that's probably quite a good one. I can say this now as well, is I remember one of my first big pitches I went in uh when I was doing more of the sales side with this was for uh Expedia. And it was a massive pitch. It was meant to be this whole thing, it probably would have done about 50% of our budget for the year if we won it. And we did end up, well, we did end up winning it, which is quite nice. But after we had a bit of a setback, uh, because I also did quite a bit of work with Xperian, uh, which uh, as you know, the credit score sort of thing, and walked in to do this massive pitch in the Xpedia office with the Xperian logo plastered all over the deck that I was presenting, uh, which then had to be quickly joked about and tried to recover from, to which I didn't think I ever would. Uh luckily the guys that work there, I've now quite very good friends with them and worked with them for a few years. It eventually became the funny side. But I think now when we catch up and once you've had one or two beers, they do still ask if uh if they're if experienced will be receiving the invoice for the drinks that night and things like that. Uh so yeah, always uh always double checking the logos on decks is probably at least it wasn't a rival company. Oh yeah, but you're going in and imagine going into that with booking.com flaster all over everything. I don't know that I've ever forgiven me for that.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

I always like when I get an email from somebody saying we'd love to work with insert random PR agencies' name, but it's not us because they've clearly just sent

The Pitch Deck Logo Disaster

SPEAKER_02 3:22

it to everybody and forgotten that they've not done they've not tailored that bit. I mean, yeah, but I w I would say, well, what isn't one of the key things in creativity differentiation? And um the fact that you won the pitch, was it the fact that you were memorable because you were the guy who that fucked up and did the experience thing?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, exactly. I can claim now maybe that it was uh it was done purpose to stand out. I like that quite a lot. I might use that when I tell that story from now on.